Luther Vandross

Someone said the in the latest Anita Baker thread that legendary Luther was a real piece of work, a nightmare that would be a perfect fit for DL.

Ive read that Luther was an emotional eater like Mother Oprah, obviously. I also heard he kept hot young men on his payroll, a la Tyler Perry.

Anybody have Luther stories? He deserves to not have his teas spilled on a thread about that broke bitch Anita Baker, since he hated her so much.

Great song. Terrible acting. But a Luther thread should have a fresh Luther joint to get us started!

There's great footage of him as a young back up singer in the new doc "20 Feet From Stardom." I have to say, once he lost weight and butched it up, it was quite a transformation.

Not that it fooled anyone though, r2.

I never heard of him in the same level as Oprah, more like a black Elton John, without the English sharp tongue.

Luther did a remarkable job of keeping his personal life and sexuality secret although everybody knew. Other celebrities went out of there way to protect him, even years after his death there are no stories or lovers that come forth.

When En Vogue was his opening act back in the day, they referred to him as 'Lucifer.' Poor girls, he scared the ish out of them.

Highly underrated singer. Many classic R&B hits and a voice like none other. I loved the work he did with the Italian group Change back in the early '80s.

Always thought A. Baker was overrated as a singer, plus Luther made more efforts to get better singers and musicians for his albums. He was a victim of an overbearing deeply radical religious mother though, just like Whitney. I remember I saw his funeral service on TV, some of the speakers (esp the pastor of his mother)were scary religious nutters. Black churches and homophobia!

Luther was an amazing singer...ugh I didn't see this thread earlier so I'll repeat the story...

The En Vogue feud. It was about 20 years ago or so when he and En Vogue went on tour together. Apparently some people in the audience were saying that when En Vogue performed on stage, Luther's band was in the way and were blocking them from view. En Vogue then asked that Luther's band be moved off stage when they performed in the future. This made Luther go HAM on them as he felt the request was disrespectful. He stopped direct communication with them, ordered a curtain be drawn between his and their camps, and even had separate eating times.

There is also a story that he had problems when he went on tour with Debarge because of their drug use and partying ways.

He was incredibly talented.

omg imagine the shade between these 3!!! YAAAAS

another shady queen posse pic!

Luther was a spineless queen who took his "secret" to the grave to keep his black fanbase happy.

He actually looks handsome in r12's pic

Love it r12! SHADEE!

I dont think the true story of Luther's life will ever get told, its kind of unfortunate. He must have faced incredible adversity, he was black and gay, came from a religious family, and he was a self made star. I feel like he is a overlooked pioneer of gay people in entertainment.

Luther was very depressed, he probably lost most of his gay friends by the 90s. I would be depressed too if I chose to croon to crowds of women every night like I was straight. He loved to sing and share his gift though, so I guess that was more important to him. I hope someone makes a movie about his life one day.

R6, I LOVE Change too, I consider them slightly better than Chic actually. But Luther's big song with them "Glow Of Love" is pleasant but mediocre imo. "A Lover's Holiday", featuring Jocelyn Brown, is far better. "Paradise" is their other perfect song, a Chic imitation better than its source.

Aw, leave Luther alone. He was a great star and entertainer.

I always thought this was an autobiographical song about a gay teenager.

[quote]I always thought this was an autobiographical song about a gay teenager.

Definitely r17

He was once asked what is his favorite summer food. He responded, 'Oh, something light, like a salad.'

Pause.

Then he said, 'Oh, who am I kidding, my favorite summer food is my favorite any season food: cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger!'

Give Me the Reason was one of his best songs.

I could listen to Luther all day-whether solo or in Change. Unfortunately he's become more "forgotten" now but a lot of male singers in their 30s and 40s looked up to him. My fwb is an amazing singer and said Vandross was his inspiration to start performing.

Will there ever be a "Behind the Candelabra"-type movie about his life?

Why not a movie about an out and proud singer instead? I think the whole glass-closet Candelabra thing has been covered now.

r17: I'd believe it. A lot of songs Luther sang had glaring subtext. We are now subjected to many black male singers singing "Superstar" on talent shows only because Luther sang the song. None of them have a clue as to what the song was about: a female groupie pining for a male Rock star. Luther knew that (so did Karen and Richard). When he paired that song with "Until You Come Back To Me", he knew precisely what he was doing.

And let's not forget "If Only For One Night," where he promises to 'be discreet.' It's a down low anthem.

R25 I was just about to post that song. I always felt he was sending a message with it.

R16, in Boston the huge hit from the Change album was searchin'! HUGE!

I love Luther. Baby,baby,baby,baby I love you. I really do.

Unfortunately for Luther, he sabotaged his own legacy by not choosing to live a life as the person he truly was. It wasn't the choice to keep his private life private that keeps his fans speculating, but his avoidance and denial of the subject. How sad, since it only made him seem shameful. Vandross would be considerned a much bigger influence and be credited for his artistry much more than he is today had be been more honest. Instead, he's remembered first for being a closeted queen with all sorts of ridicule and innuendo attached. His diva tantrums and his natural demeanor coupled with his public facade as a ladies man simply made him appear foolish, and by remaining closeted he gave all the speculations power. Publically acknowledging his sexuality would have left it powerless. I've read several stories of his fits (Neil Tennant tells a good one), but we're only talking about this today because he led us to the conversation, and not because he was a demanding unprofessional.

r29, I think you make some good points, but honestly what other choice did he have, especially being black in the business 30 yrs ago?

Look at the closeting still going on for obvious LGB people in entertainment.

The only thing I would've questioned was the whole "ladies' man" image. He should've done what Paul Newman did--marry a smart beard and be discreet.

Does anyone know if Luther and Jermaine Stewart knew each other or hung out, or more? I know Luther was a bit older and hung out with the divas while Jermaine hung out with the younger acts at the time so I'm not sure if they would have had a chance to meet.

R20, I agree GIVE ME THE REASON is a great one. The similar-sounding STOP TO LOVE was another great one.

[quote]a lot of male singers in their 30s and 40s looked up to him

Yes, and Richard Marx was one of them. Luther and Richard often collaborated, including Luther singing backup on Richard's "Keep Coming Back"

Loved his duet with Janet for the "Mo' Money" soundtrack--THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE FREE

Luther wrote and produced Aretha's "Jump To It" single and album

Luther and the late Gregory Hines dueted on this beautiful ballad

Luther was unbelievably talented. I don't even know where to start in describing his voice and vocal abilities. Everyone knew Luther was gay. But it seems that some are forgetting that even in 2013 it is still considered career suicide for a male singer or male celebrity in general to come out as gay let alone in the 1980s. I hate that he was mean to En Vogue, though.

One of Luther's early gigs was singing backup on David Bowie's 'Young Americans,' and IMHO those backup vocals made that song.

r29, you say he sabotaged his reputation, but when held up against his peers, Luther has one of the better, if not one of the best reputations in the music business. There was no drug abuse, shady business deals, sexual scandal ever in his career. Most people knew Luther was gay, but didn't acknowledge it because he didn't acknowledge it. No one but gossip queens knows about what a diva Luther was and how sad he was behind the scenes.

I would like to hear about some of Luther's blow ups r29, since you seem to know!

R29 here. I do think being black and being judged by his own community did keep him closeted. I also think business and going where the money was had something to do with it. However, I also think that had Vandross been a bit more resolute he could have had a persona similar to Bowie's, the person Vandross credits with discovering him. No one talks about Bowie's sexuality, wherever it happened to be on the scale at any point in time, because he deflated any interest it may have had with his own veracity. Today David Bowie is considered a genius much before his sexual encounters get mentioned.

r40: Bowie was a white Rock artist. Luther was a black R&B artist. It wouldn't have worked. We'd like to think it would have, but it wouldn't.

He did sabotage his reputation by leaving the details of his personal life up to gossip sheets and rumor mills. Good or bad, it was his doing.

r38: legend has it, Luther made up those backround vocals on the spot. The chorus and the vocal hook of that song didn't exist. Luther made it up.

And if he did open up his personal life, what do you think would have happened?

Wow. He had some equally talented singers.

And why does anyone think that it was up to him to come out as gay? How many male singers or even A list movie stars are openly gay today? I was born in the late 80s so I don't know from personal experience what it was like for gays in the 80s, but from what I've read and have been told, it was pretty difficult. It would have been career suicide for him to have come out as gay in the 1980s. I think some people are drifting away from reality on this issue.

True to a certain extent,but not entirely. Sylvester was open, enjoyed mainstream success, and is now considered a legend. Reducing this to race is too simple. A person has to take responsibility for their own decisions in their own life at some point. Libarace is a good example on the flip side. White, closeted, and in denial. Today he's viewed as a freak show before what a great entertainer he was. His denial created that. Fair or not, living in that manor hands all the power that those who want to use it against you right over to them.

He had an incredible voice. When I was a young girl I dreamed of him singing at all my most important events. And no, I never had a crush on him. Of course, I knew he was gay, even then. As is my other favorite male singer, Daryl Coley.

Now that I think about it, 3/4 of my lifelong favorite singers (2 women, 2 men) ended up being either gay or bi, purely by coincidence.

At the end of the day, people think of Luther's voice an dmusic before anything else-his sexuality, diva attitude, weight etc...

It may not have have been prudent for him to come out in the 80s, but he did reach a point in his career where he held the reigns. A few years before his stroke had he chosen to do so and quiet all his detractos he'd be considered brave and an inspiration. Sure, he may have lost some supporters, but he would have gained many more, and many of them may never have heard of him before that. That decision may have made it easier for Frank Ocean to come out sooner.

I also think Luther didnt come out because he didnt want any attention on the relationships he did have..judging from the music he wrote, Luther loved very hard and didn't get the same love in return a lot of times

[quote]Highly underrated singer

By who? He's beloved amongst his audience, worshiped even. Always talked about for having a great voice to this day.

I've read that he was a complete bitch. Makes perfect sense - the stress of being closeted, not really happy, often fat due to real eating problems which I'm guessing came from the whole closeted thing.

Luther's incredible CD 'Songs' had covers of songs by Barbra (Evergreen), Aretha (Since You've Been Gone), Whitney (All The Man ( he sang Woman) I Need), The Supremes (Reflections)and Roberta (Killing Me Softly).

As infants, Luther and I were nursery roommates, born on the same day in the very same hospital; I like to imagine remembering his newborn cries as being melodious.

RIP old friend.

R24, how is it humanly possible to listen to the lyrics of "Superstar" and not know what the song is about? Your post doesn't make any sense.

R39 I remember watching the Dick Cavett Show with David Bowie performing Young American live with vanDross sharing a mic with Mrs. Robin Clark - both looking like they just rolled out of church.

Not Bowie,of course,who was high on heroin and as thin as a rake.

Ava Cherry and Bowie's childhood chum Geoffrey MacCormack wailing away to their left as backup singers as well.

That's all vanDross's backup arrangement... great great hooks...

Meant to address that last post to R38 not 39...

Luther singing backup for Bowie is featured prominently in the documentary "Twenty Feet From Stardom" as mentioned upthread.

Justin Bieber sings better than Vandross. And is a lot hotter

R57 Bowie stole Fascination, which appeared on the same album as Young Americans song from Luther btw.

I hope Luther was at least paid for that. As a thank you Bowie choose not to have him in Videos, because he as a chubby black male was not fashionable enough for the thin white duke.

I wonder if Luther ever talked with Johnny Mathis about the life Luther was living. Johnny was always thought to be gay and it didn't seem to matter to his fans or friends. He sang those beautiful songs in that incredible voice and just went on living with whatever thin, blond dude had captured his fancy at some point.

He is still out there entertaining and quietly came out years ago with no discernible effect on his popularity. Luther could have learned a thing or two from Johnny.

Talk about a gay song! Listen to this gorgeous song.

He was amazing esp in his early years. The albums he did with Mascara and David Lasley are still classics.

Also his early albums Never Too Much, Busy Body, I Know and the ones he produced for Aretha and Dionne were gems.

it's crazy when you think about all the amazing singers who either start off as or remain backup singers for less talented people. Vandross supporting Bowie? eew. Bowie was such a weak singer.

R64' see the great new documentary "20 Feet From Stardom" about the great background singers. The always wonderful Darlene Love is featured.

R65 yes I saw it and enjoyed the documentary. I'm still mad at Lisa Fischer for not wanting to continue what could have been a promising solo career. She's amazing and should be in front of a band and backup singers, not part of a supporting cast.

Billy Preston was openly gay like Slyvester. Billy was the architect behind The classic Rolling Stones song "Miss You" but didn't get any credit from The Stones.

Luther sang on "Fame" title song and came up with idea of repeating "Remember, Remember, Remember"

I agree r64 that Bowie's not that great of a singer, has a tendency to sound like he's mumbling, for one thing. I'll defend him with one song though, Ashes To Ashes, really strong melody, some pretty cool lyrics about his heroin addiction, and excellent synth work.

Frank Sinatra famously called Johnny Mathis "The African Queen," but now when Nancy S. is on the Siriusly Sinatra channel, she always goes on and on about him as if he were an old family friend.

Sinatra was a pig, but a complicated one. He was loyal to his friends even as he abused them. Sinatra respected talent, and Mathis was sometimes part of his group.

I am posting Mathis on Carson. Johnny Mathis was a great singer and a pretty black man, somewhat similar to Luther. There are many similarities in their styles, incredible abilities, theatrics and pretty man ways. Luther was much funkier and deeper in the pocket and a bigger talent being a writer and producer at a very creative time for black artists and superstars. But still there is that sweet, soulful, show off the song and respect the voice quality that both Mathis and Luther both exhibited. Just a bit prissy, but such beautiful sounds that we forgive it. SEXY. Luther Vandross is my favourite male singer.

Listen to Mathis hold and crescendo on the last note of this (corny) song for over 20 seconds. I am sure Luther must have learned a few things from listening to Mathis, but we know Luther's vocal hero was Dionne Warwick.

Gay and black and that word we can use ain't ever been easy. Church boys still hiding in plain site. I think that Luther did what was best for him. Had he outlived his mother he likely would have made it official and maybe live as long as Mathis. If Whitney had outlived her mother, she might still be alive too. I digress.

"Little Boy Lost"

I just remember being devastated by his death and spent the day with the shades down, shrouded in melancholy, spinning all of my favorite 45s of his. Then I realized I was listening to Freddy Jackson records and pulled the shades back up in embarrassment.

[quote]Then I realized I was listening to Freddy Jackson records and pulled the shades back up in embarrassment.

Lmao!

This one of my favorite Luther performances with Nippy, Stevie Wonder, and the great and powerful Hussynator. Luther shut those bitches down at 3:34 woowoowowoowwoo

Bowis is and always was about more than his singing. It was the entire package, the visual, the aesthetic. Bowie's voice is perfect for what he does and he'll be the first to tell you his voice is just part of the picture. You've missed the point if you evaluate him solely on his "singing". Like Vandross, few others if anyone can effectively interpret his material. Without the distinction either vocalist brings to their material it falls flat.

Speaking of Preston, he was very well-esteemed by The Beatles, often being referred to by them as the 5th Beatle because of the keyboard work he did with them.

R73 that is one of my favorite group performances of solo artists. You just don't see stuff like that anymore because most in the biz don't have that talent these days (they're out there but not getting record deals/pushes). I love Luther's low notes.

R74 it's not about missing the point-some of us simply don't like Bowie's voice and think it's a joke someone like Luther started out doing backup for him. That's all. All the weak singers out there sound good because of their amazing backup singers.

[R71] Thank you for posting that . Johnny Mathis is one of the greatest singers ever, and that song/ appearance one of his best . That last note incredible. This is what talent is. And Luther. P didy, Kanye, Jay Z - all amateurs, full of pumped up garbage they call music.

If only Johnny Mathis was born about 50 years later.... Boy was he good-looking when he was young.

"Hot Butterfly," one of the songs Luther sang lead vocals on with Change, is one of the best things he ever did. I love all of Luther's late-70s/early 80s studio work before he went solo.

He was such an unbelievable talent, and gone WAY too soon.

If you're here and don't know Luther, he is gonna sing straight to Dionne Warwick in this clip, one of his and her greatest songs. Anyone else has loved this before. The ballad.

He made panties drop for sure. He knew his gift and his audience. His voice was so smooth and sexy, nuanced and deep in the heart of a phrase or song. He had his Divo moments, lots of them. But he could bring life to any backup vocal and stellar vocal to any solo. The most gorgeous voice.

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon...

"A house is not a Home"

Vandross was overrated. He didn't know when to just leave the melody alone. Far too much embellishment of every damn song which made him essentially a one-trick pony.

Too bad he didn't learn from his idols Dionne and Aretha that sometimes less really is more. Those ladies knew when to hold back and when to let it all out. Luther was more like Mariah Carey - just tiresome and attention seeking melisma.

Not gonna lie. I wanted Johnny Mathis bad. Ha.

This song came out when I was about 16, it seemed so sad and sweet. Listen to the real record, it is quite beautiful. Sweeping strings and his tender vocal.

Luther was all about his eyes and Mathis was all about his mouth when singing, well at least to my lust...

This song is hokey and was then, when I was more into punk rock. But it is better than most anything that Streisand recorded in that time. Mathis felt something, but was removed from it too. Before divas, that is what great singers did. They believed in the song and maneuvered us through the feelings, showing only a glimpse of their own.(Sinatra) Divas changed all that, and left the great emotive male singers behind. Except Luther and later George Michael...only the best dude voices around.

Johnny was a handsome babe.

"Yellow Roses on Her Gown"

R82

To compare Luther to Mariah is apposite in a way. But unlike her, he did not forsake the meaning or words of a song just for vocal tricks or sound without meaning.

Melisma is always thrown around about Whitney and now Luther? Mariah Carey gave melisma it's bad name. Many followed. Luther and Whitney used it with taste. I think you are mistaking riffs and runs for melisma. Melisma has always been here. Luther's worst vocal influence was his biggest friend, Patti Labelle.

Mariah Carey uses so much melisma that she always sounds like she is singing into a fan, the windy sort. There is no there, there in her singing. Not true of Luther. (True of Christina Aquilera and Beyonce, the other big melisma culprits.)

Aretha, makes everyone afraid to mention her name. But how she started to sing and where she ended up shows her to lose all restraint and good taste as a singer. She was once the greatest, but that was 30 years ago. Melisma is only one of her vocal crutches. The tone of a voice is what we all love in the end, no matter how great the ability of a singer. Aretha was a thrill and soared with her voice where her imitators scream. But she has for sometime screamed and used melisma in search of the note.

Aretha's incredible and powerful sound, like Carey's can fool people into some idea that they feel or mean something when they sing, but it is seldom true. They are gifted by the vocal gods, but not with lyrical or human connection.

In my humble opinion,(as we are taught to say), you are wrong about melisma and Luther.

R82 ehm Mariah Carey was first and foremost a studio singer - not very trained and very awkward on stage. She is and always was a product of intense promotion and vocal gimmicks. Luther was a fine singer, not very powerful in his voice compared to Peabo Bryson or others of his generation, but he was very subtle and also had musical talent. He had very sophisticated taste, which reflected in his music esp the early stuff he did and also in the way he interpreted songs. Sorry, but Mariah Carey is cheap pop sensationalism.

I love his album "The Night I Fell in Love", because I did just then and the songs covered it all.

As famous as he was, it's a shame that he didn't have more #1 hits. True r&b singers (not the pop r&b) have never gotten enough respect from mainstream america.

R61, Bowie didn't steal "Fascination" from Vandross. They rewrote the song together, primarily the lyrics, and slowedthe song down a bit, and Vandross received a songwriting credit. At that point in Vandross' career Bowie couldn't have done him a bigger favor. A songwriter is one of the first royalties paid and Young Americans was a million-seller. The Bowie catalogue is still one of the most valuable in retail music. So Vandross benefitted nicely from his association with Bowie. He may have been paid a fee for his singing/performing (as is standard practice), but Vandross continued to receive royalties from "Fascination", and I'm sure his estate does today.

And during this phase of Bowie's career his background vocalists were featured prominantly in concert and during TV and promo appearances. He wasn't petty enough to keep "black, chubby" Luther hidden. Bowie wasn't going to compromise the soul aesthetic he was immersed in during Young Americans.

Luther produced two of Aretha's "comeback" records in the early 1980s: "Jump to It" and "Do It Right."

I saw Luther's last concert tour five times. Vegas, L.A., Radio City, Phoenix and I even drove to Fresno (!) to see him there. He sang live and was phenomenal every time. He started recognizing my partner and me in the audience and waving to us. Great memories of a talent and a time that will never return.

RIP Luther.

I have loved Luther V for many years. Always figured he was gay.

I remember him on Joan Rivers's talk show in the 80s...they did a video tour of his house. When they got to the bedroom Joan made a crack about the "closet" in that room...Luther quickly steered the topic to something else. He also said that actor Steve Gutenberg was a close friend of his at that time.

To me, LV's best songs are album cuts, not the hit singles. He wrote some amazingly beautiful, musically creative stuff that was ignored even by many of his fans who concentrated on the hits. My favorite example of this is "See Me" from the Give Me the Reason album:

Anita Baker and Luther had patched up thier bad blood. They even agreed to record a duet together (one of the reasons Luther was pissed, Anita woud never do a duet). On the day they were supposed to record, Anita was a no show. No call, no show no reason. He ended up doing it with Martha Wash.

For the person who posted about Hot Butterfly that was by the studio group Bionic Boogie...not Change. Great song though. Classic late night anthem. Didn't Luther have a bit of a scandal with a car crash where a young man who was a passenger died? It happened and then disappeared from the news. Luther and Gladys are the two performers I have seen the most live. I have seen Luther ten times and each time he was magnificent. I do feel that in the recording part of his career he veered too much torwards easy listening/quiet storm baby making music that sort of made his already smooth sound into a snooze. His voice was still great but it didn't have the power that it had when he was doing House is Not a Home or Give Me the Reason or Never Too Much. He smoothed out all the edges and as a result I stopped listening to most of his later output. Still went to see him live though and he proved that he was the best out there.

One of Luther's first jobs was singing backup on Streisand/Summer's "Enough is Enough."

Not a fan of his wailing style of singing. I also find his voice very unpleasant and he often sounded like a whining tranny.

Wailing?? Luther crooned, darling. Prick up your ears next time.

Ms Warwick hasnt shown up in here?

"See You In LA" always puts me in a good mood.

Vandross already had a prolific and respectable career as a session vocalist by the time he was asked to do "No More Tears". In fact, his resume probably got him the job.

I know Luther wanted more pop success but he was one of the Kings of R&B during the '80s, the era that had Luther,

Freddie Jackson (who had alot of #1 hits during that era and he's a 'mo too),

Peabo Bryson,

Jeffrey Osborne,

James Ingram, Michael McDonald (the King of duets with female divas...he's sung with Aretha, Patti, Chaka, Toni, etc),

Teddy P,

Bobby Brown (before he allowed drugs to wreck his career, he was Usher before Usher),

Ray Parker Jr.,

Billy Ocean, etc.

An emotional, cracky but regal Whitney Houston pays tribute to Brother Luther.

[quote]I know Luther wanted more pop success but he was one of the Kings of R&B during the '80s

Excuse me, Miss Thang. One of the kings of R&B?? Brother Luther? Let's get one thing straight, Miss Di-ane! Ok? Let's get one thing straight. Bobby Brown is the one and only Kang of R&B! Let's get that straight.

The rest of 'em, God bless Brother Luther's soul, are all good but not in my Bobbaaayy's league, OK?

This thread made me curious about Luther's disco period, and I found "See You In L.A.," which I had never heard before and I am just loving it. This is why I love Datalounge!

R88 Luther had written Funky Music for his own group, called Luther, before he worked with Bowie. Bowie heard them rehearsing the song, just changed some of the lyrics and claimed he had written it. And yes there were TV appearances and videos where some other, more appealing (to Bowie) and smaller guy (Luther was not only quite heavy but also very tall) lip synced Luther's back up vocals for Bowie. Bette Middler continued that, with putting Luther behind the curtain in her concerts. Shame really, I always thought he was handsome.

Nat King Cole's oldest daughter had a serious thing for Johnny Mathis and badgered her father to help her get Mathis' attention. Mathis was a very big fan of Cole's. Apparently, Cole finally broke it down and told his daughter that her affections were misplaced because Johnny was not interested in girls.

Until I heard that tale recently, I didn't know that Mathis' orientation was acknowledged or known to others in the industry. I thought he was deeply closeted like Luther.

R89 yes and that's when Luther and Aretha had a bit of a tiff. Aretha was used to being told her first takes were perfect. Luther was the first in a long time who said otherwise and they had a fight over how she should sing/sound in those songs lol.

R100 that is a great list. My my my how r&b has deteriorated! The guys you list have nice, robust, deep manly voices. Now all the guys have boyish, soft voices. I hope someone new comes along to revive real r&b.

R89

There were amazing songs on Luther's 2 Aretha album - "It's just your love" and her duet with Livi Stubbs are outstanding as a several songs on the "Get It Right" album. AMAZING stuff!!

I always thought this is what Luther likes to do when no studio label exec interferes. But he also wanted money and liked fame and fortune which took the soul out of his music in the last years unfortunately. The Songs and Clive Davis albums were just awful.

A close friend went to a party at his house ,circa 1989-90

it was all cute boys ,his boyfriend at the time was white.

He said Luther was very nice to everyone ,but quiet and shy

Just a party ,no orgy .think he said he lived in Laurel canyon

Luther received a writing credit for "Fascination", so to indicate that the song was stolen is ridiculous. Vandross made more from that version of the song than he ever would have wih his own version. This is a case where one musician truly benefitted from the association with another.

Midler didn't include Vandross with her back-ups because they were all female. More often than not 2 were black, and typically one was of them was a bit zaftig. Vandross was kept out of sight merely for the reason that he was a man. To indicate otherwise is just narrow and self-serving.

R109 If it's true that Luther wrote the song first and Bowie just took it without crediting Luther with the main writing credits, yes then he stole it. Not denying that Luther made more money that way, he was an unknown backup singer and his first 2 "Luther" albums probably made very little money.

This whole premise that Bowie stold this song is just ignorant. Do your homework and look at the songwriting credits. They're listed as Bowie/Vandross and always have been, from the original vinyl issue through digital download. The only way Vandross would be able to collect a royalty from this song would be to be listed as a songwriter, and he is. I really don't think Vandross would have worked on a song that was so obviously close to one of his own without saying "Wait a minute here..." He and Bowie worked on reworking the song together. So stop trying to suggest that this an instance of a white artist ripping off a black artist. Vandross and Bowie were both aware of the value of Vandross' artistic input into Young Americans and, although it was Bowie's vision, it was to a good extent a creative collaboration.

Brilliant Billy and Syreeta R67.

R111 If Bowie was in any way involved in the writing of Funky Music Is A Part Of Me than he would have appeared in the writing credits on Luther's self titled album of that song. He wasn't! Bowie just changed some of the lyrics and some of the arrangements but he was not involved in writing that song.

Can we not argue about that non-singer freak Bowie? This thread is about the amazing singer Luther Vandross.

Never said he was involved in writing "Funky Music". The song existed before Vandross was involved with Bowie, so he obviously he wouldn't get a songwriting credit. That's not the argument. The argument is whether of not Bowie stold anything from Vandross, and he did not. He simply got a credit for his contribution to a song Vandross had already written. It's a huge compliment and a huge career booster when someone like Bowie says to a young songwriter "You've got what I'm looking for." Vandross benefitted financially and artistically from his involvement with Bowie and I've never heard or read either man saying anything derogatory about the other.

He's been lipo'd from head to toe.

Did Luther ever consider marrying to dampen down the rumours?

Bowie was very generous when it came down crediting himself as a writer, but not so much when it came to others. Vandross came up with the main hook on Young Americans, but strangely his name is missing in the writing credits.

It's a shame that Luther never recorded or performed with Phyllis Hyman. A duet between them would have been AMAZING. They had so much in common-rich voices, pretty faces, very tall, emotional eaters, tempermental/divaesque and incapable of finding/keeping a meaningful relationship. Only difference was Luther didn't do drugs like Phyllis did.

Wasn't Luther having an affair with two brothers in their teens? One died in a car crash and I think he paid the family off. (Good thing for him TMZ was not around then) He was never the same after that incident.

This happened in 1986. I don't think Luther had an affair with the 2 of them. It's possible he had an affair with the older brother, who was 27 when he died in Luther's car crash. The younger brother, Jimmy Salvemini, is a great singer and Luther was looking to produce his debut album. He was only 15. After the car crash things changed though. I think Salvemini went on to record a debut album (not with Luther) and it didn't go anywhere. It's a shame as the guy has a nice r&b voice.

omg r119, that wouldve been a duet made in heaven. Im glad there are so many admirers of Luther's work on DL.

r120, I never heard that rumor before...gurl

I always thought this was a gay song.

Here's an interesting clip of Luther talking about his weight issues, with commentary from Dionne and Whitney.

Luther and DL fave Phyllis Hyman would have been something in a duet together. I wonder if they knew each other at all? Both were incredible talents who were also hot messes.

Luther singing "Hello", the Lionel Ritchie ballad and tucking it in his pocket. He takes it.

I love how at the end of the song, Luther flashes the "yes I did just sing like that EYE." Nobody did those pretty eye fucks like Luther. A bit gay, but sexy still.

Whitney took that look and put some concentrated Diva-light into it. She would slit her pretty brown almond eyes and just pierce the fucking joint. How do like me NOW!!

thanks for posting that R126 I didn't know Luther performed that. He's a better singer than Lionel anyway.

Paul Simon, Luther and Jennifer Holliday singing "Bridge Over Troubled Water" in church. The choir is on fire.

Luther is too thin, it robbed his voice a bit when he was starved down, but he climbs the bridge/chorus of the song. Woo hoo. Jennifer was still singing more than growling back then and she and Luther take it home. Simon is a bit shaky, but happy to be there. Sweet.

Fuck ALL of these Faggotts that the Black Church is breeding in the Black Race ,,It's PURE EVIL ,,And they are ALL going to be punished !!!!

Rock and roll was never supposed to be about how beautiful your voice was or what an impressive range you had. Mick Jagger has always had a terrible voice. Janis Joplin was like nails on a chalk board. Lou Reed had practically no voice. But they delivered the goods.

He had a hot n heavy romance with Star Jones.

R130 some of us like people who can actually sing and don't want to hear those can't. Luther had such a beautiful voice.

Giving MAJOR bitch face in this shot. Love it! yaaas. werq, Luther.

I loved his "The Night I Fell In Love" album, so mid-80s and I had fallen in love too then. It was perfect. I want to hear it again now.

Never too much, never too much, never too much...

Love Luther.

Luther was a fabulous singer/musician but sometimes his music makes me sad. Being closeted is irrelevant but longing to be loved and never getting it is tragic.

R136 he was the non-drugged up, male Phyllis Hyman. Both of them mostly sang about not having a relationship.

Phyllis was bi-polar. She could not form healthy romantic relationships. But she was gorgeous and never had trouble getting male attention, she just couldn't make it last.

Luther was overweight and suffered from low self-esteem about his looks. His loves were unrequited. The men in his life were with him because he was wealthy and lived lavishly -- not because they desired him. He's singing from a different place than Phyllis.

R128

He was not a gospel singer. His mother was a religious bigot, just like Whitney's mom.

Has "Twenty Feet From Stardom" been nominated for an Oscar?

It should be.

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

R138 in the last 7 or so years of Phyllis' life, she first became fat then obese. She also struggled with her sexuality, like Luther.

Luther was a handsome man too and though he was overweight for more of his life than Phyllis, both were yo-yo dieters.

It's just a shame they never made a duet. THAT would have sounded fucking amazing.

R140 of course not. The protagonists are black and the subject matter isn't about slavery so they're being ignored. Meanwhile a couple years ago that fucking silent movie with John Goodman cleaned up.

Everyone loved Luther,he was amazingly talented,but honestly,everyone also knew he was gay.I never met one person who didnt think he was.BUT,what everyone speculated about more was his drug use,and thats another thing they can deny till the cows come home but Luther was a big ole coke head and everybody knew it!

Yes r142 a Luther/Phyllis duet would have been epic. Although I think there would have been some bare-knuckle, wig-snatching, MMA-style brawling in the studio.

He was good friends with David Lasley, openly gay falsetto singer extraordinare. They worked together quite a lot in Luther's early Disco years and Lasley was a frequent background singer on Luther's albums.

Too bad he never had the guts to come out, he was a real talent.

Luther's singing voice was quite sexy to me, despite me viewing him as a non-sexual/asexual person.

I love it when I hear guys who can sing his songs well, as it's rare. Most come up quite short.

In the vid at r81, the man you can see sitting over the left shoulder of Ms Warwick(e) is the gay actor Paul Winfield.

According to Wiki: "Winfield was gay but remained discreet about it in the public eye. His partner of 30 years, architect Charles Gillan, Jr., died on March 5, 2002 of bone cancer.

Winfield long battled obesity and diabetes. He died of a heart attack in 2004 at age 64, at Queen of Angels – Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center in Los Angeles. Winfield and Gillan are interred at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Los Angeles."

"In Winfield's voiceover career, he is perhaps best known as the narrator for the A&E true crime series City Confidential, a role he began in 1998 and continued with until his death in 2004."

Nobody could draw out the word "murrrrrderrrrr" like Paul.

I've always wondered: the unnamed AIDS victim 'friend' whose demise inspired Janet to write 'Together Again' - could it have been Mr Vandross...?

Bumping since we were discussing Luther in the other thread.

r148, Luther died many years after Janet recorded that song, Janet probably recorded "Together Again" in 1996 and Luther died in 2005. I dont think it was about him.

r146, I dont think anyone has come close to Luther in the voice department, except Ruben Studdard who covered all his songs really well. All the pop guys these days have that nasally wanna-be Michael Jackson sound that has been done to death. Luther had a rich beautiful church voice that sadly is not happening right now because R&b has died off. John Legend had potential, but his vocal styling irritates the hell out of me, and he is not nearly as smooth as Luther was.

He's dead so we'll never know, but how is he any different from Johnny Mathis?

R149, I think Jaheim comes close to Luther. He never really blew up because all the Jackson imitators like Chris Brown, Usher songs Trey Songz got more promotion.

I met Mr. Vandross once in a business context. He was polite, charming and smart. On the other hand, he should have kept his self-important condescending posse at home or put them back on the bus for the Bronx. One of his back-up singers in particular was insufferable. He must be working cruise ships now.

"Image-obsessed MTV-era record execs were generally clueless about how to market a rapidly aging black crooner. A binge eater who swelled up if he lost a Grammy or a lover, Vandross rarely looked like the romantic lead his songs suggested. Execs likely stalled at his closetedness: like an r&b Cary Grant, Vandross wasn't the passionate heterosexual that his music suggested. Though he never came out as gay, bisexual, or even straight, you had to be wearing blinders--as many of his fans, particularly female, must have been--to overlook his queerness. The sequined Liberace suits were a clue, as were the highly publicized bitch fights he waged on tour with Anita Baker and En Vogue. The dead giveaway for me was his admission that his high school grades plummeted because he was in anguish over Diana Ross leaving the Supremes."

Another chubby self loathing queen who was extremely sexually repressed and desperately lonely. I think his church upbringing and conservative-and-judgemental-black-woman audience stunted him even further.

It's lucky he didn't reach MJ levels of fame (as he was thirsting to) because with all that money and power, i'm sure it wouldn't just be that 15 year old R&B singer (who survived the car accident) who would have copped his advances.

It wasn't all about Luther's weight. He had a lot of nothing songs that his vocal stylings could only elevate so much.

There's a reason that people talk so much about his covers.

Are you implying Luther only got laid once...?

I'm sure he had as much sex as he wanted. Whether it was with WHOM he really wanted is another matter.

So nasty and so rude in this thread.

[quote]The dead giveaway for me was his admission that his high school grades plummeted because he was in anguish over Diana Ross leaving the Supremes."

MARY! (Wilson)

He even did the Supremes / Ronettes cat eye makeup before Amy Winehouse brought it back!

'Like an R&B Cary Grant.'

Bless you for that R153!

After rap (and maaaybe country), the whole R&B-quiet storm-pantydropper scene is the musical genre with the most stigma about homosexuality. If Vandross (the genre's inarguable figurehead between the 80s and early 00s) had come out, there would have been a shitstorm. His record sales would have plummeted, the black community would have thrown him under the bus, and his label would have dropped him. It's unfortunate because he was obviously very, very gay (his core audience demographic have never been the most discerning bunch) and deeply unsatisfied... but the alternative would have been worse.

Johnny Gill is STILL dodging those rumours frantically, 20 years after Ellen and Will + Grace. It's just inconceivable for that brand of R&B singer.

If he and all the other closet cases had come out, they would have faced some difficulties, but they would be remembered as heroes who paved the way for others. He stayed closeted for $$$$$$, just as they all do. Stop excusing it. I realize a lot of you are closet cases too, but enough is enough.

I mean I wouldn't have if I were him (maybe if one of his lesser peers), but it would definitely have opened up the conversation in a big way. Easier said than done, though, and he always mentioned how desperate he was for a pop #1, coming out would have destroyed all chances.

Boy George was out by the early 90s. His romantic life remained fucked up. I doubt it would have elevated Vandross that much. As said, most assumed he was gay, even those who didn't want to think about it.

I could listen to Luther over and over and over and over. Amazing. What a voice. I don't care this is an old thread. The man was amazing.

My favorite R&B males ever are Vandross, Alexander O'Neal and Howard Hewitt--all fantastic.

Vandross was also in the original cast of Broadway's THE WIZ and contributed at least one song to the classic score.

R167 yes to those 3 but add in Jeffrey Osborne and I'm there with you! I miss big, powerful, sexy voices in r&b and soul! You could FEEL what those 4 sang.

Not this Trey Songz, Chris Brown or The Weeknd shit. None of them are real singers.

Boy George was not afraid to be a freak, he embraced it. Luther came from a completely different background, conservative black churches. Actually they duetted on stage at the Apollo theater once in the early 80s, with Luther being very dismissive towards Boy George.

The Weeknd dominates the charts like no one else has. Not Luther. Not even Michael Jackson.

I wish I got a chance to see him in conert.

Seems like he had a sad life, though.

I saw the Luther tour with Anita Baker.

I'm a huge fan, but to be honest, he was pretty boring in concert. Basically one slow ballad after another. I had trouble staying awake through the whole thing.

The most interesting things that happened were when he had Gregory Hines come up and sing their duet, and when he threw some subtle shade at Anita Baker.

Even though Anita Baker was the first one to perform every evening, it was stipulated in the contract that she was to be referred to in all advertisements and publicity material as a co-headliner. She was, at that point, selling more records than Luther, and had, unlike him, successfully crossed over to the pop market in a big way.

Well Miss Vandross made it a point, when he was saying his goodnights and goodbyes to the audience at the end of the show, to thank his OPENING ACT, Miss Anita Baker.

I don't think most of the audience picked up on it, but I'd been reading some articles and I was aware of the "co-headlining" situation, so I understood the shadiness of it all.

From everything I've read, it looks as if Miss Luther could be a NASTY CUNT if you crossed him, or when he became annoyed with you. In addition to the Anita Baker feud, there were also feuds/spats with Aretha Franklin, Bette Midler & the group En Vogue. En Vogue (who did another co-headlining tour with Luther in the 90s) told a very believable story for several years, of how nasty he could be when you got on his bad side. They only stopped telling it when Luther became sick and eventually passed. Where there's several smoke clouds, there must be the fire of a mean & bitter queen somewhere!

With that said, Anita Baker is also known as being an insufferable bitch! At least Luther (in addition to his feuds) seems to have had several people within the industry who he was kind to and who adored him. But I've never heard ANYONE say anything nice about Anita Baker as a person! Overlook her Luther fights, Cheryl Lynn dustup from a few years ago and her nutty behavior following her divorce proceedings, here's another interesting one. Years ago when Wendy Williams was only a radio personality (and as messy as ever), she did an interview with 80s/90s R&B songtress Miki Howard. I've attached the audio of Miki telling a very juicy story about an interaction she had with Anita Baker backstage at an 80s Soul Train Awards ceremony. I believe every word of it and think this shows what a cunt Anita can be.

Here's an article about the Luther/En Vogue ordeal. Things got so nasty that the group started referring to Luther as "Lucifer". LOL

I need a song timeline of when he’s fat and when he’s slimmer.

Yeah, Luther could be a real bitch. I still love the stories of Luther and Aretha in the recording studio. Apparently, Aretha took offense to Luther telling her how to sing, so she stormed out of the studio in her fur coat.

I have never heard a good thing about Anita Baker. Although she surprised me last year on Twitter, when Renee Zellweger won the Oscar, she tweeted that Renee was a neighbor and a very nice person.

WHET Anita Baker ? I am still waiting for that album.

Anita retired. I think last year was her final concert tour. But she seems to have been retired for years. I think she lost interest in recording a long time ago.

R179, she seems to have lost interest in singing altogether. And based on performances of recent years, you can tell! It isn't merely just a matter of getting older, I think a lot of these acts just get tired of singing their hits and at some point start to phone it in. The audience is basically paying to only SEE an aged version of their favorite vocalist on stage and to hear themselves (badly) sing the songs. It's a sing-a-long.

Audio of Miss Baker singing the same song as R180, back when she actually gave a shit.

Anita was going to drop an album a number of years back but it never happened. I forgot the name.

Anita Baker’s first album wasn’t a big hit. She owed her subsequent success to Sade who paved the way.

But 'Angel' (the song at R181) from that first project remains one of her most memorable classics.

Helen Baylor was as good as Anita Baker if not better. Love this song which Anita would have killed for.

Anita had a hit with a band before her first album r184

I remember Anita was a guest on Mo'nique's short-lived talk show. She performed one of her songs and she sounded horrible. She obviously didn't rehearse, and she obviously didn't give a shit.

The way she sings, sometimes you can’t even understand what she’s singing

I tend to agree with the people who say he didn't have much choice about staying in the closet. He would have never made it this far being an openly gay singer, singing those romantic songs to an audience of females who would know he was not singing to them.

Being a singer's singer he had a vision of being famous with an artistic drive and talent to match. He was also quite shrewd in his business affairs, refusing to sell his songs, plus he liked having money so he could buy fabulous clothes and decorate his apartment.

He was the youngest child and his 2 sisters and his brother all died before him. His father died when he was a child. Diabetes ran rampant in the family and eventually the disease killed him too. I think all the family tragedy drew him and his mother closer together and he just wanted to take care of her.

His long time friend Fonzi is still keeping the magical Luther backup singer tradition alive. Good chance high profile artists need the best uhs and ahs, they hire Luther's old singers to do their magic.

Luther was 'difficult' because he was a perfectionist. His music was sophisticated and never trite, it was never a cheap product. That's what I always thought separated him from people like Anita Baker or his male contemporaries like Freddie Jackson. Lots of those were copy cats, Luther was the real deal.

I don't know about the En Vogue fight, to me they were a cheap sounding industry arrangement. I would have been offended by how lawful they were. Luther loved the real divas, Aretha, Dionne and Diana, Whitney's mom was his favorite backup singer.

For me Luther never topped his first hit NTM

R190 Sophisticated ? Dance with my father....can you say cheesey ?

R192, I think by that point LV just wanted a hit. And the 'Dance With My Father' nonsense came courtesy of 80s Cornball Richard Marx.

I saw him and Anita Baker and the night was long!!!! When they changed the set for Vandross, it must have taken an hour.

Boy George received shade from Vandross when their paths crossed.

The whole look you up and down " who are you" bit.

In Luther's defense R195, Miss George was probably as high as a kite.

R196 George was with his hot mess crack buddy Marilyn.

It's interesting how Richard Marx writes these treacly ballads because he's a snarky bitch on Twitter, trashing Trump every other tweet and trying to stir up shit in other tweets.

Saturday Love OR Best things in life are free ?

Which duet everyone here prefers ?

The rumors were around for a VERY long time. A LOT of female fans "knew" it, but they could have that dissonance if it was never confirmed. That's why "they should come out, everyone knows anyway" is sometimes bullshit. Luther had a very substantial segment of fans who "knew" but could go along with it as long as there was no confirmation - no public lovers, no coming out, no interviews talking about his sexuality.

I would have been fascinated to see what would have happened if he lived and came out later - not at the very end of his career, but maybe at the beginning of his "legacy act" phase. I think he would have been abandoned somewhat- he would not sell as many tickets. But, I also think there would be a part of the fanbase that could get over it, or never had an issue to begin with,

I once met an ex-lover of his... or, at least, a young man who had lived with him for several years. He was trying to get clean, was 20 years younger than LV, and was the most astonishingly beautiful man ever. Italian, creamy white skin and dark hair and eyes... It was said LV was devastated when the guy left him.

I would have loved to have known Ms. Luther and see what sort of queen he was. Rumors are that he was quite bitchy and difficult, but that's nothing special. Beyond that, what was he like when around other gay men or gay-friendly people.

Ummmmmm........R199..........Puddin' Plum...........'Saturday Love' was actually recorded by Cherrelle & ALEXANDER O'NEAL. Luther had nothing to do with that one. LOL.

R203 Oh my bad. Same producers though. I always confuse Luther with Alex.

WHET Alexander O’Neal ?

Alexander O'Neal also had gay rumors. Not as deep and broad, but they were certainly there. I don't know if they're true. He does have a kid, I think, which seems to make a lot of people stop asking (yes, I know that's not proof of heterosexuality.)

For R205, Alexander O'Neal remained big in the UK and a part of Europe after his peak in the U.S and performed a lot over there His hits are still played a LOT on R&B radio in the U.S.

Sad Cherrelle never became as big as Janet. They had the same Jimmy Jam sound.

You beat me to it, R206. Alexander O'Neal has also been a crack cocaine addict for decades. He did some time in prison at some point in the last decade.

Me too, R209, what of my favorites.

R207, Cherrelle had some great records! 'You Look Good To Me', 'I Didn't Mean To Turn You On', 'Will You Satisfy?', 'Saturday Love', 'Everything I Miss At Home, etc. Unfortunately she never had the big crossover hit to expand her audience outside of the 1980s R&B crowd.

Sorry - "one" of my favorites

Didn’t Madonna cover one of Cherrelle’s song ?

I meant Mariah. I’m drunk haha

Mariah covered Cherelle's (written by Jam and Lewis) "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" on the Glitter soundtrack/album. The most popular cover is Robert Palmer's version.

R201, years ago on some forum (possibly DL or Lipstick Alley), someone who had worked at a hotel in the 80s or 90s shared a story about Luther. This person said that Luther & a few friends swept into the hotel & reserved a room for a very short time. Something like 20 minutes, and then they were out. I can't remember all the details, but this person who worked at the hotel STRONGLY suspected that Luther and his friends just needed a spot to quickly & privately do drugs of some kind.

R202, I've attached a blog post from someone who witnessed Luther in full Queen Mode. Luther & his friends were enjoying a night out on the town, to see his longtime friend (Gay singer/songwriter) David Lasley perform. It's a fun read, and gives a brief glimpse into what Luther was like as a person offstage.

FYI, David Lasley is a prolific Blue-Eyed Soul singer/songwriter. Just a few of his credits include writing Anita Baker's 'You Bring Me Joy' & Chaka Khan's 'Roll Me Through The Rushes' and singing background on Cher's 'Take Me Home'; among many other things! He & Luther sanfg backup vocals together for a lot of acts back in the 70s.

Here's David Lasley's original version of his song 'You Bring Me Joy'. I love Anita Baker's version but I love David's version even more.

My time with Luther Vandross. ‘Waiting For [Self] Love’

Tuesday, July 5, 2005 (original posting date)

I first met Luther Vandross when he lived in Los Angeles. At the time I had an apartment near the Santa Monica Pier. Around the corner was a live music spot called ‘At My Place.’

One evening friends and I went there to see David Lasley perform. (David Lasley is a very gifted singer/songwriter. Anita Baker’s ‘You Bring Me Joy’ and Chaka Khan’s ‘Roll Me Through The Rushes,’ among many beautiful songs, were written by Lasley.) That night, as usual ‘At My Place’ was packed. When locating our seats, I noticed Luther sitting at a table next to ours. He was glowing a little, still in his prime and just beginning to thin down in size. With Luther was Kevin Owens (one of his background singers) and Sam Harris (a white, multiple winner on ‘Star Search,’ known for his dramatic, throaty renditions of Black music classics.)

I was a professional musician at the time. A few of my peers were also hanging out that night. Some of L.A.’s best showed up for David. Soon, it got around the place that “Luffah” was in the house. Like me, most of my peers were extremely impressed with Luther as a creative musical force. Not only was Luther a ‘sangin’ fool’ (the very best male of his era), but, from album one his brilliance was accompanied by ...

link

Oops, sorry didn't see your post R216.

R218

I still have the cd single of this mix

Oh my God, how I love Luther. Him singing So Amazing just instantly brings me to a special place. A place that's filled with love and hope and longing. This song has a certain power. It calms me. I could listen to it for the rest of my life and feel it.

In one of Luther's biographies I read years ago (possibly the one by Craig Seymour), the author stated that in the 80s Luther went to Sylvester for advice on how to navigate through the Music Industry as a Black Gay Man.

He was a nasty piece of work......but very nice to his female backing vocalists........but pretty much a nightmare to be around in a work environment. He was always on a diet and would buy thousands of dollars of Versace clothes in sizes that didn’t fit when he was trying to lose weight. I always thought he was trying to be as mean and bitchy as Miss Ross was known to be in her hey day.....he was so vile to people that I gave up ever trying to feel sorry for him......

Absolutely, R222. Obviously, Ruben isn't Luther, but as far as people covering his songs, he's a great choice. Not feeling that arrangement on Power of Love.

"He was always on a diet and would buy thousands of dollars of Versace clothes in sizes that didn’t fit when he was trying to lose weight."

NEVER buy aspirational clothing ( I know). Buy the clothes when you lose the weight.

In 1987, Luther's drummer (prolific session musician) Yogi Horton committed suicide, by jumping out the window of his 17th floor hotel room. At the time, the reason for the suicide was believed to be that Mr. Horton killed his self because HE wanted to be the star (instead of Luther). That was thought because of this quote from the original newspaper story:

"Horton had told his wife he was tired of working in Vandross' shadow."

I've never believed that. Yogi Horton was a seasoned session musician who had worked for quite a few acts (in the studio & live) before his Luther Vandross gig. I'm sure that Mr. Horton was well aware that his job description was to come in as a member of the band, working BEHIND the singer. Not as the lead musician. Either his wife misinterpreted what Mr. Horton had told her, or the newspapers misinterpreted her.

If you read behind the lines, this is very telling. What it sounds like is a man who was under severe stress (along with other issues), who got absolutely tired of working for a boss who was a complete asshole. But we'll probably never the whole truth.

Remember when Luther killed that young singer he was producing, Jimmy Salvemini?

I do.

Yes R228. Car accident in LA. There were rumors that they were in the car fooling around and lost control of the vehicle. I don't know? But the family always blamed Luther for his death.

R231 Italian, young, dark eyes...pouty mouths.

R226, the late Gerald Levert used to tell a story about how back in the 90s Luther bought him an extremely expensive sweater as a gift........!) sizes too small. And told him he could wear it once he lost weight. LOL.

I do not know any women who though of Luther as a sex symbol though they loved his music.

Jimmy Salvemini's brother Larry was killed in the car accident. He was also rumoured to be Luther's lover.

Pretty amazing how his PR team was able to keep this from the headlines.

Yeah, I didn't know about the Salvemini story until a few years ago. What an awkward situation for Jimmy since Luther was mentoring him and then Luther ends up killing his brother. (The family sued so I am sure Luther cut him off).

Although Luther remains highly respected and revered for his singing, I don't doubt that he resented not achieving full crossover success. But the problem is like r235 mentioned, Luther simply wasn't sexy or exuded sex appeal. He wasn't like Johnny Gill or Bobby Brown or members of Jodeci who could make women swoon. That's key to mega success. The weight didn't help either. Also, I think too much of Luther's music eventually became drenched in too much MOR.

[quote]Pretty amazing how his PR team was able to keep this from the headlines.

Well this was long before the internet gossip age. And one benefit of Luther not completely crossing over was that he didn't have as many people interested in who he was dating. So he could keep those white twinks in rotation! Im sure there is more tea on him but we'll never know.

Now for my favorite Christmas song 🎄

Were there any unreleased songs when he died ?

His former backup singers, band members and his personal assistant, who's running a diabetes education program, are all still very tight. Not sure if I believe all these stories that he was nasty. He was demanding and bossy, probably, he was the head of his company and very hands on because he liked his music to be a quality product.

That former drummer story, Yogi Horton, who killed himself because he couldn't live in Vandross' shadow anymore sounds stupid. He was a musician in LV's band, not the star of the show.

I remember seeing the auction items online, when his family put them up for sale. Dozens and dozens of shoes, jackets, coats, shirts, pants, jewelry and furniture pieces, paintings, silverware, crystal glasses. He loved what he felt were fabulous things, all a bit nouvau riche and tacky.

David Peaston could give Luther a run for his money

johnny mathis is KING in my book.....omg that voice !!!!!

Mathis is more pop crooner

R243 Yeah, I get that. But as Mathis was to the 50s/60s, Vandross was to the 80s/90s. Sort of "progressive crooning."

Was Vandross a sex symbol, well, no. But the very sound of his voice got women wet. And like Mathis', it got a lot of people laid.

I generally don't like Mathis's nasaly voice. It pairs well with Christmas tunes, so I like his Christmas album.

"Was Vandross a sex symbol, well, no. But the very sound of his voice got women wet."

Yeah, women would freak out at his shows when he started singing certain songs. He wasn't physically sexy; and many KNEW and some believed the rumors. They just loved the music, and it could take them to a place where they projected the romance or lust or whatever they were feeling from his music onto whomever - their husbands, boyfriends, lovers, somebody they didn't know but thought was hot.

Yes r246 that goes to show how talented he was that women still were turned on by his music even though he himself was not the object of their lust.

[quote]George was with his hot mess crack buddy Marilyn

He was MY crack buddy first...if you know what I mean...

No one doubts his talent, people just was not dying to fuck him: men or women.

I acknowledge his talent, but can't name a single Vandross song. I never got into him, because I thought him boring and unattractive.

Well what did you want him to do r250? Twerk? He came up in the 70s and 80s era of R&B and he was gay. He had no choice but to keep things conservative and it paid off, for him.

Would you not know Luther sang this song if you heard it? It still gets played everywhere.

Roberta Flack supposedly told Luther to launch his solo career. I remember reading one of the old black celebrity magazines quoting her. Don't know if I can believe that or not. Luther had a lot of people rooting for him. He said in EBONY that when he met Bette Midler at a party, she walked up to him and said, "You must be LUTHER!", and she bit his tit. Sounds like her.

I’d heard that they had a curtain backstage so they couldn’t see each other. I’d heard that Baker was difficult and that may be the reason she flamed out so quickly.

A friend of mine went to one of his concerts and says the black women in the audience were waving scarves and chanting his name. They made up the majority of his audience. I’m still a fan and I just learned that he had two Christmas cd’s!

R250 here. I don't care how gay he was, R251. I just always preferred Marvin Gaye, Bill Withers, Al Green, Barry White, and Aaron Neville. They produced material I enjoyed. Vandross while talented, just doesn't appeal to me. His material was boring, & unappealing.

Oh, and forgive me. I DO remember "Here & Now", because it was featured in so many of those album compilation commercials in the 80s, & 90s.

he looked like a mean queen, and his voice sounded too manufactured...

im told he swooned when young white boys chewed on his big fat tittys for days.

He's an R&B legend, but some of the arrangements seemed almost adult contemporary. I liked his voice generally. There's a handful of songs of his that I really love, but I don't go that deep like the hardcore fans.

On the DL the phrase “Dance with my father again...” takes on a whole different meaning....

R257, I agree. Luther's first 2 or 3 projects mixed in a little Funk & Soul with the ballads. After that, it all became too safe, too AC for me.

Luther Vandross was a huge talent that left us far too soon. He had few peers then and certainly now in terms of instrument and what he could do with it in so many ways.

As for whispers about the man's sexuality, that is just how things were and largely still are in the AA community about homosexuality. Overall AA community is conservative and often religious. Toleration of gays/homosexuality varies from enlightenment to down right hatred.

Many AA families have gay members, everyone knows what they are, but no one really says anything upfront about it; almost like Italians and some other ethnic groups.

All this being said world of AA musical performers has always tended towards various levels of hyper masculinity. This going back to early days of jazz or whatever. William Thomas Strayhorn (Billy Strayhorn) was protected from the more rougher elements by Duke Ellington, who of course had use of Billy Strayhorn because the latter was a genius who came up with much of the famous material Duke Ellington and his band used.

To OP et al...

Luther Vandross like many African Americans suffered a huge problem with weight gain. He would lose massive amounts of weight, gain much of it back, then lose it again....etc.....

Sadly like far too many African Americans Luther Vandross suffered from high blood pressure and diabetes. Both conditions that can be aggravated by choice of diet and carrying excess weight.

Luther Vandross also suffered from periods of binge eating which brought on a major cardiovascular incident in 2003 (a stroke).

Fifty-two is rather young to have such a health event, and Luther Vandross would die just two years later in 2005.

Maybe it was the stress of both is work and living a closeted existence that contributed to the binge eating.

Everyone in the industry knew Luther Vandross was gay, but he just was never going to make that official by coming out.

From his Wiki page:

"Vandross' sexual orientation was a subject of media speculation. Jason King, writing in Vandross' obituary in The Village Voice, said: "Though he never came out as gay or bisexual, you had to be wearing blinders." According to Gene Davis, a television producer who worked with Vandross, "Everybody in the business knew that Luther was gay". In 2006, Bruce Vilanch, a friend and colleague of Vandross, told Out magazine, "He said to me, 'No one knows I'm in the life.' ... He had very few sexual contacts". According to Vilanch, Vandross experienced his longest romantic relationship with a man while living in Los Angeles during the late 1980s and early 1990s. In December 2017, his friend Patti LaBelle confirmed that Vandross was gay

I worked at a 5* hotel's offsite fitness/tennis facility in 1990ish, Luther & his partner came in daily for a week- they were beyond delightful & exuded class all the way..... One of my best weeks I hold close to my heart. I was deeply saddened when he passed.

Just as what is want to happen with people fustrated in their lives, besides eating Luther Vandross spent insane sums on what best can be described as "junk"..

Not that things were cheap bits of tat; but how many sets of china, silverware, etc.... does one single man need.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Since Daily Fail still does not like links back from DL....

None of his siblings lived beyond 55 and they all died before him. His father died at 39. Diabetes was a killer in the Vandross household. He must have known his time would be limited.

He did an excellent album on Virgin records called I Know in 1998 which wasn't a commercial success compared to his previous ones on Epic which all went platinum. Disappointed he left Virgin and signed up with Clove Davis' newly formed J Records.

I think he was just desperate for mainstream recognition, he wanted what Whitney Houston had and after he left Virgin and joined J, Clive Davis couldn't or wouldn't put out the same magic that worked for Whitney.

I remember Dance With My Father being played almost everywhere. So J records did give him some of what he wanted. He also did the Roberta Flack/Donny Hathaway remake with Beyonce on the album. That was his last moderate hit.

R254

Look at reaction of audience at that NAACP awards clip with Luther Vandross singing "A House Is Not A Home". The AA women are going wild!

While love the clip am always so annoyed cameras kept cutting to Dionne Warwick who was in the audience as well. Yes, I know it was her song, but it was Luther up on stage, and that is where the focus should have been.

Besides Luther did things with that song that Ms. Warwick never could....

[quote]I remember Dance With My Father being played almost everywhere.

That was more because he had the stroke, I don't think it would have become a big hit if he hadn't fallen ill.

He was a great artist, but he wasn't a mainstream guy. He was awkward on stage, esp when he was fat. He didn't have what Diana Ross or Whitney had.

Being "heavy" does not always equal being awkward on stage.

Barry White was fantastic in concert and other live performances, and he never was thin.

Well Luther was awkward on stage.

Johnny Mathis came close a few times to coming out IIRC, but it never took. It wasn't until much later in life when he was in a more comfortable place he began to open up. But even then the door was only cracked a bit; true to his generation and somewhat conservative upbringing Johnny Mathis just doesn't believe in blabbing about his personal life.

As a pre-Covid Paris in the Spring, R274.

R276

If you're referring to Johnny Mathis, yes he issued a clarifying statement or something after what amounted to coming out. It wasn't just his handlers and "suits" but IIRC high placed members of the AA "COMMUNITY" where shocked and appalled.

Keep in mind in 1950's and 1960's Johnny Mathis was a huge recording star, and one of the few with massive crossover appeal. You'd go to his concerts or whatever and whites vastly out numbered blacks. Whites often voted JM's music in top five or so of "make out music". We might consider it not much above elevator music today but songs like "It's Not For Me To Say" was like Barry White's songs a few decades later; when you heard it playing it was because something was going on between adults.

R277 17% of Baby Boomers were conceived during a JM song.

R277 I was referring to Freddie Jackson

R279

No one has anything on Freddie Jackson. Whatever he is or isn't only the man and possibly mother know for sure.

I saw something a few years ago where Freddie Jackson did a vague non-denial, bu didn't directly confirm anything.

He's another singer where a big part of his audience had heard the rumors and many believed them, but paid them no mind and just enjoyed the music.

Freddie Jackson was on "The Golden Girls." Isn't that evidence enough of his gayness?

luther + young mariah were too good for then

Alwys thought vandross was scarey/creepy looking....why she eat herself to death, or was it the uh..partying...

Yes, I loved "I know" and "Don't Want to be a Fool". I listened to him in the 90s and looking back now I can't believe how much music has changed. Sad that we don't have SoulR&B ballads anymore.

This is what Luther Vandross did best....

Here and Now has become one of the top ten if not five first dance songs both straight and gay wedding receptions.

Don't know why so many assume R&B was then such a limited category, Barry White spent most of his career on R&B charts and did very well.

I like that he took it up the ass and was not ashamed of it, among his friends. He welcomed all loads once he was fukd up enuf.

My favorite Luther era is actually his 70s / Early 80s period as the GO TO session vocalist. He sang backing (and sometimes lead) vocals on countless sessions and his voice is instantly recognizable. Rock, Pop, Disco, R&B, Jingles, etc, he did it all!

Luther Vandross for Sears' Cheryl Tiegs Signature Collection in 1981.

R289 it's really amazing how, even in a group of 4 or 5 backing vocalists, Luther's voice was recognizable.

On the chorus of Bette Midler's "Married Men" you can pick out his distinct tone among all the other singers. He's not even trying to stand out, yet he does.

I remember listening to this a few years after Luther had become an R&B star, and without even looking at the credits on the album, I knew he was in that mix.

You're absolutely right, R291. I've had that experience several times. If Luther was involved in the background vocals, you can easily tell and spot him. That's how distinctive his voice is.

David Bowie's 'Young Americans' is another example.

An early Stephanie Mills number from 1974. 'Movin' In The Right Direction'. Luther Vandross is heard belting out the background vocals.

I admire that he did not mind when loads of cum ran out of his hole and down his leg, in front of people. the bitch had confidence.

"I am a girl group." Luther was a mess.

dey sez hims diapers stunk bad as miss arethas....

R295 It's so odd how she keeps praising him as she is telling the stories of how insanely messy and dramatic he was.

Can't believe they made a heavily pregnant woman go on tour...

What is the song R17 is referring to? The link is no longer valid.

[quote]I always thought this was an autobiographical song about a gay teenager.

"A Brand New Day", also known as "Everybody Rejoice", is a song from the 1975 Broadway musical The Wiz written by American R&B singer and songwriter Luther Vandross. (In 1976 Vandross recorded a version of the song for his album Luther.

Luther's talent for principal and background vocal arrangement was very much in demand. He was smart and he continued to work on other projects even as he was becoming a star in his own right. He did the vocal arranging and contributed backgrounds to Linda Clifford's original recording of "All The Man That I Need."

He later recorded his own version of this song (after Whitney). After much deliberation, he changed the gender and sang about a female he didn't want or need.

He was such a big queen. omtg !!!! took loads of jizzz daily....ho lover.

[quote]"I am a girl group." Luther was a mess.

yess hunny Luther could read too.

Luther was a Cissy Houston stan!

Cissy Houston was no joke live. I love her version of Be My Baby

David Bowie hired an unknown Luther Vandross to sing background on 'Young Americans' and was surprised by his creativity as he added to and rearranged the backing vocals. I think Bowie gave him co-writing credit for his contribution.

The cemetery he's buried in is lovely. I have a lot of family there.

Is the Craig Seymour book worth reading?

He was a beautiful man. Sang from the heart.

Did anybody know about Randy and Luther back in the day? GURL I CANT 😁

Luther stole Billy Preston's career...and Billy's "hefty look"...and Billy's orientation! Luther was Billy's Mini Me.

Interesting stuff from Dawn Robinson on the Luther/En Vogue feud:

[quote] Luther was a spineless queen who took his "secret" to the grave to keep his black fanbase happy.

Luther did not have a fulfilling love life so there was no "secret" to share. If he'd been in a relationship and/or in love his story may have had a different ending.

His artistry cannot be denied. His talent for arranging and executing background vocals to maximum effect is unparalleled. This Roberta Flack song, that Stevie Wonder penned and demo-ed, did not contain the soaring background counter-melody starting a 3:14 until Luther got his hands on it. It is the part of song that stays with you longest. That was his gift.

[quote] Is the Craig Seymour book worth reading?

Yes, it's excellent.

[quote] Unfortunately for Luther, he sabotaged his own legacy by not choosing to live a life as the person he truly was. It wasn't the choice to keep his private life private that keeps his fans speculating, but his avoidance and denial of the subject. How sad, since it only made him seem shameful. Vandross would be considerned a much bigger influence and be credited for his artistry much more than he is today had be been more honest. Instead, he's remembered first for being a closeted queen with all sorts of ridicule and innuendo attached. His diva tantrums and his natural demeanor coupled with his public facade as a ladies man simply made him appear foolish, and by remaining closeted he gave all the speculations power.

The quoted text is almost 8 years old. In 2021, it is obvious that Luther did NOT sabotage his legacy. His appeal was predominantly to black audiences who enjoyed soul music. In that arena he is legendary. Even today when commercial radio is completely corporate and committees choose what gets airplay, Luther enjoys more recurrent airplay than Peabo Bryson, Jeffrey Osborne, Freddie Jackson and Alexander O'Neal COMBINED. He dominates satellite radio playlists.

In the end, the only thing he did not do was make a public, official statement that he was gay. He never bearded or pretended to be in want of the sexual attention of a woman. He probably noted how Johnny Mathis had to re-closet himself, or observed how George Michael's career nose-dived in the U.S. after his outing, and just decided there was no reward in going public. Even when he was alive, most of his fans believed he was gay. He did live his life as he was. He lived a gay life and anyone in his circle of acquaintances knew he was gay. He was the subject of a cruel AIDS rumor in the late 80s, so there was broad awareness (suspicion) of his sexuality early on.

I don't think he had any significant "shame" -- beyond the dysfunction that plagues any gay man, out or closeted, in a homophobic world. His difficult behavior was more likely related to his 'artistic temperament' -- or emotional, and probably, mental issues that were untreated, like depression or bipolar disorder. He was very talented and felt his artistry was undervalued. That created resentment especially when he saw an Anita Baker or an En Vogue garner the commercial crossover success and Grammys he coveted.

I remember his song "Your Secret Love" circa 1996 was regarded as his 'coming out' song although he was obliged to deny that he intended it as such. I think he is rightfully remembered as a giant in the Black musical heritage and appreciation of his music only increases with time.

JUSTA NOTHER CLOSET OLD QUEEN HONEY.....

He was no Teddy Pendergrass.

Dawn Robinson, formerly of En Vogue, recently spoke about the touring situation with Luther. Luther had it put into their contract what kinds of outfits they could wear, what colors etc. When they challenged him on during the tour (they had signed the contract), claiming that their fans wanted to see a glamorous girl group, Luther replied: "I am a girl group!" He'd even brought his lady backing singers, including Lisa Fischer, to the meeting.

[Quote] What he meant was, I have these girls who are here with me, Ava [Cherry] and Lisa [Fischer]. They are the ones that I want dancing around on stage with sequins hitting their dresses. I want them to catch the light.

[Quote] George Michael's career nose-dived in the U.S. after his outing

Eh... that happened after "Faith," long before George Michael was arrested.

[Quote] He was very talented and felt his artistry was undervalued.

He spread himself too thin.

Who inherited his estate?

I think it was his mother since she was still alive at the time. I know she had a hand in creating his 4 CD box set.

If she's gone, to whom did she pass it?

I think there's some relative of his out there enjoying a nice fortune, living a very comfortable life, and owing it all to Luther's success.

I think this is my favorite LV song..."Stop to Love".

Didn't Luther have at least one sibling? I think he had a brother.

Are RnB crooners now a thing of the past ?

No. Bren Joy is a new, good talent.

He had 2 sisters and one brother. All died before him. His father also died very young. Diabetes was a ruthless killer in the Vandross family.

Someone claimed that Dee Dee Warwick died of diabetes.

[quote]Is the Craig Seymour book worth reading?

Not really, I read it and I thought it was trashy and not very well researched. Seymour also didn't get Luther's artistry.

David Nathan wrote a short piece on the SoulMusicRecords website about Luther. He might write an interesting long form piece. They knew each other throughout Luther's career.

David Ritz' unauthorized biography of Aretha was great. Ditto the memoir he co-wrote with Etta James.

Does Gerrick Kennedy have a good pedigree? He has a book on Whitney Houston coming out. The blurb seemed a bit much.

Why didn't he go by his middle name Ronzoni? It would have made him sound more butch.

"Ron Zoni." I can see it.

"Ronzoni" would've worked well in the 80s.

He loved being rich, having tons of designer clothes, being able to afford fabulous houses and apartments in NYC trendy neighborhoods.

Did he order his designer clothes in two sets: "fat" and "slim"?

His dressmakers probably had to make 5 different sized suits when he was on tour, he was ballooning quicker than you could blink.

This is the personal account of one of his musicians making the Give Me The Reason album.

Did Cissy Houston say nice things to his face and then condemn him to hell behind his back? She is a homophobic witch and an unapologetic bitch cunt.

Nah. Cissy would talk shit to one's face.

Luther was always frank and forthright about not having much regard for religion.

Thanks , R338. That is a great account of working with Luther.

"America loves success but hates successful people."

Cissy only cared about the money she made from singing backup for Luther. The Houston's are grifters.

I love his song "Don't Wanna Be a Fool". Top 40 hit (#9) in 1991.

Did he have nieces and nephews to leave anything to?

In the '90s or so, I had a Luther Vandross greatest hits CD, may have been 2 CDs. Anyway, I played those greatest hits over and over. Still love "Here and Now."

Too bad he could not have come out of the closet.

Never heard about him being cunty.

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